Heather Elder, Heather Elder Represents

What have you seen as the evolution of a rep? Have you seen any changes in the role of a rep?

I’ve been doing this for over 15 years now and I would say the role of a rep has not changed at all. I’m still the marketing and sales director for my photographers. However, what I would say has changed is the To Do list. The things that I’m required to do, or that I’m required to make happen, has definitely changed. I say this all the time, but it used to be this straight line of marketing. You’re in a few source books, you do a couple of mailers, you go on some shows, show some books, have a great portfolio, win an award or two... and, assuming you have great work, you can be a successful photographer. But nowadays, there’s so much more to the equation. Add to that promotional events and Facebook and Twitter and blogging. And not just social media, but photographers being involved and doing all the things that I’m doing as well. I tell them all the time, if I can get them to do what I’m doing, the increase in exposure is exponential. I would say, yes. Our To Do list has changed, but our role hasn’t.

And what is the most valuable asset that an agent brings to the photographer?

I think the most valuable asset an agent brings to the photographer is curiosity. As an agent, you need to be great at communicating. You need to be great at negotiating. You need to understand contracts and you need to understand usage. I mean, those are all given. With a photographer, it’s a given that you have to have great work. So, after that, there’s a lot more that’s important, just like with an agent. It’s a given that you have to have all of those other things, but if all things are equal between two great reps, what’s going to separate them, I think, is curiosity. You have to be really interested in what’s going on out there: How are people looking at photography? Who are they choosing out there? What are the new trends in blogging? To be able to take that information and translate it back to your photographers in a way that inspires them to evolve their work or evolve how they market.

What have you seen as the most important way that photographers have changed their marketing?

I think social media has really changed how photographers can market themselves. A lot of photographers don’t like to put themselves out there. They like the creative aspect about their job and not the commerce part of their job. I tell photographers all the time, you don’t need to be out there in every, single, solitary way there is, but you do have to find the ways that are comfortable for you to do it. And I think social media has allowed those photographers who don’t like to go to the events or don’t want to participate on a panel or don’t really love taking clients out to dinner all the time, an easier way to have a presence so they can blog about their images or their studio or their processes. Or they can post on Facebook or tweet or comment on other people’s blogs and they can still be out there.

And how important is the branding of the agent versus the branding of the photographer?

When I first started my business, I kind of prided myself in saying that it’s all about the photographer, it’s not about me. I built my career on my reputation as being approachable and as a resource and nice and easy to work with... and that was always really wonderful. I never put myself out there as a brand until probably seven or eight years ago, when we first did our big group plan. Over the years, I definitely recognize the value in us being seen as a resource. But lately, in the last few years, I see the importance of promoting ourselves as a brand as well. So, not that I didn’t see that importance back then, but I think now it’s more important than ever. It’s like these silo marketing opportunities. The photographers can market themselves, I can market them, I can market us. And it’s just more ways to kind of get the word out there.

Have you seen ways that other reps have branded themselves that you thought was effective?

Yeah. I think that’s a really interesting question. I think there’s two types of rep groups out there. There are the groups like myself, where you find photographers that fill needs from a specialty point of view and you try not to have people that overlap and compete with each other directly. Then there are the rep groups that are very specialty focused and all they have are lifestyle photographers or still life photographers. So, I see people separating themselves that way. I also see people separating themselves through design, but otherwise, I don’t see...

Do you produce a group book?

We do. Well, we started last year with a small leave behind. Back up for just a second. A few years ago, we did a huge group marketing plan, where we did ads, we did our own portfolio, we did a direct mail piece and it was very successful. Over the years, it’s been challenging to do a group promo because people have their own individual marketing budgets and to contribute to a group book has been–from the economy’s point of view or whatever–it just has always been a challenge. Technology has gotten to such... and so have printing and design opportunities for us, that we’ve been able to figure out smaller and more interesting ways to have a group presence in a promo point of view. So, we did an event last year where we needed a promo and that was a perfect opportunity for us to all get together for a group piece and it was a really successful piece, so much so that we’re repeating the piece with new images this year on a larger size and we’re going to keep the smaller ones for the promo and the larger ones to mail out.

You have nine photographers in your group. Is there a maximum number that you think is manageable to be able to do something like that?

From a group promo point of view?

Yeah.

I think it doesn’t matter how many photographers are in your group to do a group promo. We contribute as an equal partner from a financial point of view so if there’s nine photographers, we split the group promo by 10 to make it more affordable for everyone.

So, why not have 20 photographers, because then it would be more affordable.

That would be fantastic. However, in order for us to keep our business model, for us to have 20 photographers wouldn’t work. We like to be very boutique-like. We like to be approachable. You’re either going to get myself or Lauranne on the phone and we need you to know that we are 100 percent committed to your project and I think it would just get diluted if I had to bring in another two or three more account people to service those clients.

How important are face-to-face meetings for you?

Hugely important. I would say that if I’m not doing an estimate, I think the most important thing I can do for my group is to find a way to connect with someone, and face to face would be ideal. The reality of that has gotten harder and harder over the years so I need to find connections in other ways, whether it be asking people to participate in our blog, taking somebody out to lunch, asking for a portfolio show, doing a trip, reaching out and helping someone in another way, I’m not sure. But that is hugely important.

Do you make cold calls?

All the time.

When you’re calling somebody, is your starting off conversation with them about your agency and what your agency brings or is it typically about one of the photographers?

Most of the time I already know the people that I’m calling. So, I don’t often have to do the introduction. If I’m calling for a specific photographer for a specific reason, for example, if I’m trying to get Leigh Beisch into Starbucks, I will call the person that I know up at Starbucks. And sometimes it’s just a social call at first, when we’re chatting... or maybe I’ll send an email ahead of time saying, I’m really interested in sharing with you Leigh’s book. Here’s her website. If you think it’s appropriate, please let me know. Then I’ll just slowly over time find different ways to connect with that person until I can get Leigh’s work to be shown there.

When you go to a meeting, are you bringing portfolios of the different photographers, or printed portfolios, or are you bringing them on the iPad?

Each of our photographers has a printed portfolio. We bring one iPad, as of right now, that has all of the photographers, so that if an art buyer is interested in seeing more of a particular specialty, that’s what the iPad allows us to do, as well as showcase video.

When you have these meetings, do you find that they gravitate more towards the printed portfolios or the iPads when both are in the room?

Still, in our group, people are gravitating to the portfolios. We hear all the time that our portfolios are very unique. We have a few photographers in our group that have redesigned their portfolio in the last six months in such a way that I feel it’s very relevant for the industries that they’re targeting.

It used to be, a few years ago, that our direction to the photographers was, you need to show as much as you can and tell your story in the strongest way possible. We had some photographers that had up to 50 images in their portfolio because they felt this need to have everything there. It was kind of like a repeat of the website. Now I feel like it’s not just about showing less, but showing a very concise story that’s told in a very relevant way.

So, again, this is a very visual thing so it’s hard to explain, but David Martinez shoots for a lot of pharma clients and a lot of lifestyle clients. His portfolio is divided into sections that illustrate each one of those things very clearly, with collages and type and text. I think it’s worked very successfully for him because it’s a much smaller book and they know that they can go to the website and see those exact categories and see a wider variety of images.

Do you show tear sheets?

For some of our photographers, we do show tear sheets. They tend to be at the back of the book in a collage or a smaller collection that kind of helps add credibility to who they are as a photographer and clients that they’ve worked on. But they’re not ever the main focus of the book.

I’m going to give you a list of marketing tools. If you could tell me the degree of importance to you as an agent that your photographers are current on these things–either extremely important, relatively important or not a priority. Their physical book.

Extremely important.

Having a book on an iPad.

Not as important.

Providing you with new images.

Extremely important.

Changing the presentation of their work on their own website or just changing up their website.

Extremely important.

Doing direct mail.

In our group, we find that to be one of the single most important marketing tools they have.

Being in a source book.

Extremely important.

E-blasts.

Very important, yes.

Creating a unique and different type of promotional piece.

I think as long as they have a promotional presence, it’s not as important to have the pressure of having it be so unique and so different. I think you can have a beautiful postcard or a beautiful accordion mailer and if you send it out frequently with enough frequency, then I think it will get noticed and it may not be as necessary to do something so unique and so expensive.

Their attending portfolio reviews.

Yeah. I wish my photographers could do that more because there’s such value in the face to face meeting. I wouldn’t say that it’s a career breaker if they didn’t do it, but the reality is, it’s challenging to get them to be able to do that, especially when we travel all around the country.

What about their socializing in general in the industry? How important is that?

Yeah. I think it’s very important for them to have a presence outside of the studio. Again, not a lot of photographers like doing that or are comfortable doing that. So, I appreciate now that social media gives them the avenue to find other ways to be out there.

If you as a rep have a strong presence with social media, do you still think it’s important that the photographers have their own?

Definitely, definitely. I feel like photographers... it’s no longer just about the image and the great work. I mean, that’s a given. Ever since websites became the way to review photography, if they’re looking at your work and they’re strongly considering you, your work is great work. It’s just a given. So, what’s going to separate you from all the other great photographers out there? It’s going to be your personality, it’s going to be the story behind your image, it’s going to be how you position yourself, how other people view you and I think social media is the way to communicate that.

Do you use LinkedIn or have you seen your photographers use LinkedIn?

Yep. We’re starting to use LinkedIn a lot more. The client direct names are very challenging to come by and we’re finding that LinkedIn is a great resource for us to find those names.

How else would you use LinkedIn?

That’s really the strongest way that we’re using it right now.

Is to find people that you wouldn’t otherwise find.

And also to find crew and producers and stylists and things like that. But yes.

Do you sign a contract with your photographers when you’re representing them?

Mm-hmm, we do.

Is there a particular issue that you find really needs to be clear, whether it’s you with your photographer or reps in general with photographers that they take on that is the sticking point that needs to be clarified before the relationship takes place?

I think the biggest thing between a rep and a photographer–I don’t know if it’s the biggest thing, but it’s a very big thing–is the idea of partnership. So, if I’m a rep and I’m charging 30 percent or 25 percent, whatever it is, I know it varies, then I’m contributing that back into forms of advertising or direct mail or promotions somehow. But beyond that, I think what’s kind of interesting is this idea that what that commission represents. So, I always like for my photographers, when I sign on with them, to really understand that I’m not taking a percentage of your fee because I got you that job. That percentage of that fee represents a salary that I’m getting for all the work that I’m doing for you throughout the year.

So, I like to suggest to a photographer to look at the end of the year and what you’ve paid me and look at what we’ve done for you and accomplished for you, and does that amount of money represent a fair and reasonable amount to have paid someone to do what we’ve done throughout the year. So, that’s not something you put in a contract, but it is a conversation that can be had around all the other items that are present in the contract.

The other way to do is you hire somebody full time and you pay them whether they’re getting you work or not.

Exactly.

It’s a set salary. Is there a certain amount that you think a photographer needs to spend on promotion that’s based on a percentage of how much they make or just that the way the business is now, they should be expecting to spend X amount of dollars?

I don’t have a number in my head that should be... that you should expect to spend this much money. Boom. Done. I would like to think that it is an easy formula of a percentage of how much they bring in, but it’s never that in our group. It really is about, let’s come up with the strongest possible plan that we can and then if we can’t afford that, let’s fine-tune that plan so that it’s strong enough for the money that you have to spend and then let’s aim to add those other elements that we had to cut out, back in over time.

In your deciding that you might take a photographer on, is their ability to spend money on promotion a part of your decision to take them on?

Yes. It’s very, very important that they understand what is required from a financial point of view. However, that’s not to say that we haven’t represented photographers that don’t have as much money as we would like for them to have. Or even to say that we haven’t represented photographers who at one time had money and then later on in their career, for whatever reasons, all of a sudden don’t have the money.

Do you think it’s easier to take on a photographer who’s an unknown and mold them into something, rather than somebody who was big 10 years ago and has been a little bit forgotten and rebrand them?

Yeah, that’s really hard. I think both of them are challenging and I actually like those challenges. I think with a younger photographer, I love the idea of molding someone and help educate them and help partner with them in the early parts of their career. It makes me nervous sometimes because they don’t always understand... maybe they haven’t represented themselves long enough to understand the intricacies of what’s involved in a rep/photographer relationship. And then the more experienced photographer could be a challenge because they might be very set in their ways and not be open to the way that the industry is going or what is required of them any longer. So, they’re both challenging, but I think the work and the personality of the photographer will help sway us to decide whether it would work out or not.

I noticed on your site that you’re selling stock photography for your photographers. Is that something that started because photographers wanted to get away from the big stock agencies?

When we first started our stock website, I think maybe five or six years ago, yes, that was the exact reason why we started it. We had photographers in the group who just didn’t want to be part of the larger stock houses out there and liked the idea of managing it on their own. We even had one photographer, Andy Anderson, who went off completely on his own and invested a lot of money and time into his own stock site, which has become very successful for him.

What we learned in the process, over time, was that it’s very challenging to get a group of photographers to submit imagery to you on a regular enough basis so that you have a large enough inventory that people come to you and actually search your site and actually buy and download images from your site. That wasn’t happening for us. What was happening for us was that we were making a name for ourselves in the independent stock resource area, which for me was a huge benefit anyway. It didn’t matter to me that people weren’t downloading from the site. They were contracting us directly and saying, does Hunter Freeman have stock? Does David Martinez have stock? We would be able to do a search for them, which was fantastic because we’ve made a name for ourselves and people know us as a resource.

What we’ve evolved into today and we’re about to launch a new stock site is... I’m calling it a stock inspiration site, where an art buyer who recognizes that we understand how they search for stock photography, can come to our site and they can see... And again, it’s easier visually to see this, but there are different portfolios that are different words and those portfolios illustrate those words from our photographers. It just shows that we understand stock.

But the interesting part about the site is that if you click on that image, you can see where they can find that image. Whether it’s independent and they need to call me directly and I can give them prices. Or here’s the image number, go see Richard Schultz’s image on Corbis, and go ahead and buy it from them directly.

For us as a group, it’s no longer about the individual stock sale where I’m making money and commission and you have to go through me. It’s more about the resource. Please engage with my photographer. Know that they are a resource, whether it be for commissioned work or stock photography, and feel free to go to Corbis and find it because what these larger stock houses are starting to recognize in changing their contracts, they’re being more lenient with exclusivity and they’re starting to have features on their site where they can track where the links have come from and they’re giving me commissions from those referrals.

So, the image is actually being bought by the big stock agency, but they’re finding it through your site and you’re able to profit from that and they’re able to then sell it through their site if they want to.

Yes. This is very new. I mean, our stock site isn’t even up and we’re still working with Getty directly to really fine tune how that technology will work, but I’m completely open to it. I think it’s a great idea and a smart one.

What about video? Everybody’s talking about the importance of video. Why has video become so important to photographers when it has nothing to do with the photography?

I think the first thing that happened is the technology changed and it became more accessible. So, it’s no longer about bringing in the big cameras and the expensive lights and all of that. It’s about recognizing that the photographers are directors. Whether you’re taking a still image or moving images, you’re still directing what’s going on, on the set. So, because the technology is available to the photographers, the clients are starting to realize there’s efficiencies here. I can get some videos as long as I’m getting some stills. How can we make this work?

What’s happening is that the clients don’t exactly know how they want to use the video yet because it’s so new. The photographers are still learning. Now these are very general terms. I know that there are clients out there that know exactly what they want to do and photographers that know exactly what they’re doing, but in general, there are a lot out there that are still learning. It’s a perfect time for a photographer to get into the video business because it’s a very forgiving time. It’s an opportunity for clients to say "Yeah, sure, let’s try video. I’m not sure how I’m going to use it." And for a photographer to say, "Hey, I can provide you with video. Let’s try it out." And you don’t have to charge very much for it because you’re just learning. Very soon that will change.

Do you know how to price it? Do the photographers know how to price it? Do the clients even know how much they want to spend for it yet?

No, I don’t think so. I don’t think that there’s a set way of, this is a standard amount that we’re used to paying or that we’re willing to pay. I think we’re all kind of learning and figuring it out. The photographers in my group that are more experienced at photography are beginning to have ideas of what they can’t shoot it for less than, because they know what it costs and the time that goes into it. Everyone’s being kind of flexible about it, especially when the point of the shoot is the still photography and the video is the bonus.

Right. So, you don’t think this is replacing production companies.

I don’t think so, no. I don’t know that yet. I can’t say because I don’t know enough about... if they have some big huge shoot that they want to do, they might go to the video production company first. I think it just depends on everybody’s experience level.

On your blog, you go beyond just the photographers that you represent. So, this is part of a larger communication that you’re having with the industry. Where do you see that going?

When we first started our blog, we said that we didn’t want it to be a typical photographer’s rep’s blog where we’re just bragging about our photographers. Well, we do that... plenty. We really wanted to start a conversation with the community. I’ve always, always said from the very beginning that we’re in a vacuum.

In our office, it’s me and Lauranne and when we used to send portfolios out all the time, we would joke and say the FedEx guy. But unless we can all bond together and use each other as resources, we’re all alone. So, it was very natural for us to have that be the voice of our blog because we’re constantly reaching out, we’re constantly offering ideas and opinions and points of view to other people.

It’s been very empowering, the response that we’ve been getting. Not just from art buyers and creative directors and people in advertising, but other reps and producers and other support people who have told us that they really appreciate the conversation we’ve started and that it’s very open and honest and genuine.

What are some of the other blogs that you follow, or newsletters or sites?

I really like Rob Haggart’s A Photo Editor. I read his as often as I can. I like what you guys are doing with the ADBASE blogs and the podcasts. I like Alison McCreery’s POP blog, which is Photographers on Photography, and Leslie Burns’ Auto Parts. She’s got some interesting things to say. And I’m really happy to hear that Heather Morton is back blogging with her blog.

Great. Well, we’ll be looking forward to following you more in the future. So, thank you very much.

You’re welcome.