Melinda Estey, Young & Rubicam

Welcome, Melinda, and thanks for talking to us today. So, we wanted to get some information from you about promotional pieces that you receive from artists–from photographers, illustrators, reps–and get a sense about how many you get and what works. Could you give us an idea of how many pieces of promo do you get every day or every week, either print or email?

Sure. Well, as you can see, I brought a pile with me and it’s about three inches high and this is what I’ve received in the last two weeks. It varies by the season and it varies by the day of the week. But, I’d say the heavy part of it all is the beginning of the year. I just get barraged. And the main thing, these days, seems to be the postcard of various sizes.

Does it matter to you whether it’s a postcard or a fancy promotional piece?

Not at all. Now I’m an artist myself so I love really nicely designed pretty packaged pieces. But whether it is because I just love that or whether it’s because it’s a great piece, that’s to be determined once you open it up. Like this piece I’m looking at right now. It’s very tactile and designed really nicely and it has a great feel when you open it. But in terms of the content, there’s really nothing in here regarding the accounts that I work on that can actually relate to becoming a viable photographer for me. But I love the piece. So, this is one of those pieces that I’ll hang on to. It might be for personal reasons but, you know, that photographer’s got my attention. Whether I’ll ever be able to use their style, it’s very soft and fashion-oriented... it’s not anything we do here. But then again, it’s something I always tell people. You never know. On Cadbury last year, we had a fashion shoot and I never would have thought we would have had a shoot like that.

On receiving a piece like this, would you go to their website and take a look at the work that they might have?

If I like the promotional piece, I often bookmark the website, One of the things I do, both with the print pieces and the email that I get is, if I like the piece, I’ll bookmark the website and categorize it within my bookmarks for style. I’ve got a whole slew of people that just do splashes because we do a lot of that with the beverage work and lifestyle and all the different categories–tabletop and celebrity shooting and fashion and such. So, it makes my search easier. When we’re deciding to hunt for a photographer, often the art directors already have some idea of who they want to work with, and that gives me an idea of the style they’re looking for. Then I’ll go in and I’ll set up a whole bank of links for them to go look at. And I go to my bookmarks immediately and I start hunting through that both for reps and for photographers who might be viable. If it isn’t too deep, then I’ll go to my still library which I also do with all these promotional pieces. I pile them up and then about once or twice a year I spend half a day separating them out into categories, and then I file them. I go into my drawers of files and pull out old stuff and put in the new stuff and it’s all categorized.

And when you want to show something to an art director who you’re working with, do you pull up the promos and set up a meeting so that they see the promos and the email links or…?

I do both. I do email and then I do the printed pieces, too. We’re all still very visual and tactile people and sometimes it actually seems to get their attention faster and better when I can stick it in front of their noses. I’m always asking them “Did you go look at those links?” and I have to keep bugging them about it. But it’s a lot faster if I can just stick this in front of them.

Is there a certain time of day that you tend to look at the emails that you’ve received from artists?

I look at them all day long. Yeah. It really depends on how busy I am, whether I can actually open them all or not. Sometimes, and I don’t do this that often, but there are days where it’s just too busy and I just delete because I just don’t time. And I have to delete, I have to say this, because in quite a few agencies, there’s a limit on how large of a cache your email can hold so you can’t really hold onto all that stuff and hope to go back to it later. I probably get 75 to 100 emails a day, I’m just barraged with stuff.

Are there certain subject matters that catch your eye more?

Yeah, I’d say a clever sub-head. Something that catches your eye or has a sense of humor or it’s intriguing.

The emails that you get, is there a way that you find the presentation works better for you? Does it depend on how many images there are, or if it’s a uniquely designed email?

It’s often easier if the photographer has spent the time or the money, I would say, to have a rich email go out so that the images are there when you open the email. Quite a few people put links to their website and invite you to go look. It kind of depends on what they’re shooting. And sometimes I’ll link in, probably 60% of the time I link into emails like that where I’m not familiar with who sent it to me. I don’t know what they do and I don’t know them so I’m, “Well, let me go see.” But I don’t do all of them because again, it’s a matter of timing and how much time I have. If I know the photographer, I’ve met them before and it’s an update to their new work, I’ll go take a peek.

After you’ve responded to somebody, how do you like for them to follow up with you?

I don’t always respond to all the emails. A lot of them don’t invite you to respond. Occasionally, and I would say percentage-wise, 20% or less, I actually respond to and it’s because the content was so interesting and fresh or something about what they sent me was so funny that I just have to say something about it. If someone is really interested in getting a response from me and they write that, I try to be nice to the effort they put in. But very few people actually ask for that. They just tell you to go take a peek.

And do you take appointments with artists or reps?

Yes. And I do set up screenings and portfolio shows. It’s a real mixed bag about how successful I am to get art directors to participate in those shows. And especially on an individual basis, it’s really hard to invite them and get them to come. I like to try to screen individuals in an area where artists are likely to be walking by, the art directors, so they can see what they’re looking at and maybe if they’re interested, they stop in. That happens sometimes. But when I invite them to individual showings, they usually don’t show up. When there’s a portfolio show I get about 50% of the people to come. If there’s food, they come more readily. The youngsters are always hungry. But the seasoned people tend to not show up unless I really go around and I say “You really should come around and see this group of books, it’s really great and there’s something here for you.” So, they kind of rely on me to really… They trust me. I try not to waste their time. If they’ve seen the books a lot and there’s nothing fresh there, I don’t try to make them come.

Do you have a preference for working with new talent versus working with established talent or with people you’ve worked with before?

I think it’s a real mix. We’re running real lean and mean on some of the projects, so fresh talent might be more willing to take a job that doesn’t have quite the budget. And actually, these days, even more seasoned talent, especially if the work, if the creative is really interesting, everybody wants in on it.

Are you seeing certain trends that are coming up in the kind of talent that you’re being asked to call in?

I think if there’s a trend, it has more to do with what the clients are asking for. We have a lot of global clients and quite a few of them are creating global libraries for their divisions throughout the world to use. And what tends to be asked is that the project we’re working on be bid as an unlimited time/unlimited use kind of basis and the budgets are pretty lean. So, you know, a lot of times people say no, I just can’t do it for that money. But again, with younger folks who are really trying to establish themselves, they try to really get in on those projects because there’s a lot of content that gets generated and it’s very helpful for their books, so…

Have you seen a different amount of usage for illustration?

I actually think illustration is on a resurge. It’s not huge but I’ve definitely seen an uptick lately. Again, that trend that we were talking about with surf magazines and surfboards and more of a rougher look, a lot of that design is very text and type and line drawn focused and I think that there’s a tendency to, with any kind of project that is trying to target younger people, that’s an attractant, that kind of illustration style is desired.

And what are some of the ways that you go to look for new talent?

Both photography and illustration?

Yes.

I still use the books. I look at them and I reference agents’ websites to see what’s fresh. A lot of the people that come in with portfolio shows, they’re bringing in someone new and so you get to see what new people they’re interested in. Here in San Francisco, there’s quite a few good art schools and they have, yearly, senior shows and they invite the local advertising agencies and people in the industry to come and look and that’s a great way to find out who locally is someone who might be emerging.

And when you’re looking to get ideas about other talent, are there people that you go to for referrals on a regular basis? Are there people you contact to ask about other talent that you might not know about?

Other art buyers that I know. This community in particular, I mean, it’s not real tight but art buyers tend to, probably actually brought about by the reps, local reps, there’s a lot of get-togethers and people tend to get to know each other and call each other and somebody who does this sort of thing.

And does it matter to you to see their client list of talent that you aren’t familiar with? Do you need to see who they’ve worked with?

I always ask that. I mean, it’s helpful to know that they’ve handled a project, especially if they don’t have a rep. That they have some business acumen, that they understand pressures that we’re under to satisfy our clients. That’s not always a must-have but, you know, I do ask those questions when I’m meeting somebody who’s fresh in the business, yeah.

And on the promotion, when you’re receiving a promotion, is there anything that you’ve noticed that really doesn’t work, that when you get it, it’s a bad idea for an artist trying to get your attention to do or to send you or a way of approaching you that you find is really annoying?

There are some people who send things way too often. I wonder how they have the budget. It tends to be a lot of the same stuff. I don’t know if that’s annoying as much as I wonder how they can afford it. And then some people try to put too much on a piece. And also, people who like to write stories with their images. Like this one, for instance, has text all over it. It doesn’t do anything for me. I don’t really need to know what the shoe’s thinking or what the…

Right, you want to see the image.

The image has got to speak for itself so… I think a lot of text is annoying.

Is how it’s designed affect your interesting the artist?

Absolutely. Yeah. A clean design. I think consistency, too, is important. For instance, this particular food shooter, all of his pieces are like this. And I know each time they come it’s going to be one theme. This is a summer heirloom tomato theme. And there’s always a nice color combo and they’re feasts for the eye. And just the single postcard, sometimes they’re humorous or there’s something about the way they’re put together that’s really fun. I know it’s gotten more challenging for them, for folks to send things because the glassine envelopes have become more expensive to mail, and that used to be a great way to mail stuff because you could just see it. You didn’t even have to open it, you could see what it was all about. And now some mail is coming in envelopes. It’s a little annoying because I have to open the envelope to see what’s in it. I don’t blame people for that because it’s just the way that the price of mailing stuff has become.

Are you okay with if somebody just sends you a postcard?

Yeah. Absolutely. I actually really like them. Especially if it really speaks to their style. Like this particular shooter sent this and it happened to come at a time I was actually looking to shoot in New York with beverages. I went right to this website because it just said oh wow, right, that’s right what I’m looking for. But again, I categorize this stuff where I dig through my things and I throw things over, take the pile and go to their websites and see what it’s all about.

And when you go to their website, is there anything in particular that you’ve noticed on artists’ websites that really works well for you to be able to find the information or doesn’t work well?

There are some people who, especially newbies who are on a budget, and they haven’t really spent the time to make their images, you know, a small size so that they load quickly. You’re loading this whole batch of things versus loading index by index or… Some sites are set up in a way that you can scroll and the images… I like to be able to control how I look at the sites. I don’t like to be force-fed the images. Sometimes the sites pop up and you’re presented with a slideshow and you have to go through that particular site’s pacing and maybe you want to go back to an image and they don’t have a click-back. Giving the viewer absolute control and options to opt out of looking at something or going back to home, if there’s music, to turn the music off if you don’t like it. I don’t really mind music, it tells me a little bit more about the personality of the person but again, I think an opt-out button is a wise thing to do. But some of these features I know are more expensive to actually put on so. But I feel if you don’t have the budget, just to make sure that it’s as user-friendly as possible and that the images load really quickly so that somebody’s not spending a lot of time waiting for you.

And once you’ve seen everything, how often are you calling in actual portfolios now?

It’s been a little slow this summer. A lot of the projects have ended up becoming stock-oriented projects. I think the clients have been real nervous about spending their budgets but I’ve seen a, kind of an uptick in the last quarter with people going “OK, yeah, here we go. Let’s go ahead and spend it.” But when it’s busy, probably at least once a month I’ve got something called in.

And you actually, do you call in the portfolios once you have an interest to show the client or do you need to see a portfolio or is a website enough?

That’s a question people are asking a lot these days. The art directors like to see the art portfolios. I actually like to see them too. It tells me a bit about the artist if I’m not familiar with them, how they put their books together, their design sense, how neat they are, you know, how much they care about their portfolio. I know that’s a real expensive venture for people but I think it’s still pretty critical.

Do people still send you portfolios without it being that you’re calling in for a project?

Yeah, I get a lot of unsolicited portfolios. I mean, usually now people call, can I drop it off? I say yes. Some, there’s still a few reps who will send you a book and then want you to send it on. That’s kind of how they manage to send their stuff around. I kind of play that game a little but if a lot of people were doing it, I would probably say no. But pretty much, I always call them in on a project because again, even when you’re presenting with a client, it’s just a better way to give that client a sense of the photographer. Now sometimes on a project, the book might be too varied and there might be something in the book that’s a little edgy that might scare the client, so then we either go to the site or we talk to the photographer and have images sent and create a presentation that speaks exactly to our project and doesn’t allow them to dig through the body of work. But then sometimes you want the client to see the body of work, to see just how talented the person is. It really depends on the politics of the project and the politics of the client.

Do you like to see personal work of artists?

Mm-hm. Yeah. Sometimes that’s… I think all photographers probably shoot more than what they become known for and I think they want that and I think it’s a sad thing that we end up being so categorized in this business.

Do you find it’s very literal, like what you end up…

Oh, absolutely.

… looking for in a photographer?

And even still with even some clients, I don’t see it, I don’t know that they can shoot it. And you’re like oh, my god. Look at these beautiful tabletop shots, what do you mean?

Right.

But I don’t see any sweat on the glass. Oh. You know?

Right.

And then you call the guy, do you have anything?

With a sweat?

Would you shoot something and get it over here? But that happens about twice a year now but yeah, it’s still a surprise sometimes when that happens and you can’t quite sell it and you’re just amazed.

Right. Well, great. Well, thank you very much for your time and I appreciate it.

Thank you.