Sara Schneider, Chronicle Books San Francisco

If you could, tell me first a little bit about the ways Chronicle collaborates with photographers and illustrators. What are some of the ways that you end up working with artists?

Okay. The way that Chronicle is different from many publishers is that we're very visual and we feel that we're distinctive in the publishing industry... all of our books in some way or another have a very strong visual component. And photographers and illustrators are obviously central to that. They're integral in creating what it is we put out there. We work with them in a variety of ways... Most of the time we commission illustrators and photographers to create the content, the visual content for manuscripts. On other occasions, art does come in with the manuscript. For example, if we're doing a retrospective or if we're taking a look at a museum’s collection or artist monograph, things of that nature. But many times, we are commissioning that, the illustration, photography, to go along with the manuscript that's delivered by an author.

Are there very clearly different divisions within Chronicle?

Not necessarily divisions, but we do have a variety of publishing categories. We have 7 of them. I'm going to try to remember them: One of the largest is Cookbooks and Food, food and drink. Another is Architecture and Design. We've got Home, which is comprised of craft and home and fashion subjects. One Another covers personal relationships–your relationship with yourself, pets, marriage, pregnancy, family. We've got Entertainment, which is a huge one for us. That's pop culture, music, sports, humor, a whole variety of things. It kind of spans the gamut. And we have Children's publishing, which is very vibrant for us and heavily illustrated. We've got a lot of interesting things going on there. And then we have a Stationery group and they do journals and stationery and things of that nature.

Right. And with the Stationery group, are you going out and commissioning original work for that? Do you find them through licensing shows... where do you find…?

A whole variety. We actively scout new talent. We're very interested in who's new, who's untapped, who has a unique voice, and who we could pick up and just sort of create an entire publishing line around. So, we actively scout. We do that virtually just online. You know we use various websites, blogs, things of that nature and then…

And you would have a list of items and say we want to have him do a card and notebook or something and then you would have them do all of that.

Exactly. Exactly.

And then you would design it internally or use outside designers?

We do both. We have 22 designers in my group and they're uber talented and really passionate. But of course, since we do about 300 to 400 titles a year, we can't design everything ourselves. So, we reach out to really talented freelance designers in the industry and we hire them to do projects as well.

And then with the cookbooks, is it typically that you are working with the chef... But you don't know who's going to do the photography? So, you're starting with an idea and then there's a group of people who talk about what kind of photography you need? What is the process?

The process is essentially... people who focus on food and drink... in all cases, but in this example... that group of people is comprised of editors, designers, production and marketing people. Book concept comes across the table, and it's evaluated based on: what's the author's platform? What else is out there in the industry? Is there a hole in our list? Is there a need for this? What's the marketability and what are the visual potentials and opportunities. Based on that entire discussion and, of course, how much money do we think we can make off of the project... Based on that conversation, we decide to either acquire the project, or not. Once it's acquired, the in-house art director/designer reads the proposal, reads the manuscript, takes a look at the competition and we just sort of visualize a vision for the direction that the photography should take for that project. They discuss that vision with the editor and, fortunately, a Chronicle design is very essential to our process. It's not the editor who's driving the entire project. The editor is driving the editorial piece of the project. The designer is driving the design vision for the project.

Let's say you need a food photographer for this particular one, how would you go about finding that food photographer and choosing them?

We scout to see who's out there somewhere. You know with the Stationery list, we see who's out there.

Do you use a lot of different photographers?

We use a lot of different photographers. One thing that really connects us with the outside community... is that we have a monthly portfolio review. And that's an open-door review. Anyone out there who's interested in getting their work in front of us is invited to send their work in. It's not…

Do they send in their portfolio?

They send in their portfolio. So, it's not a one-on-one personal thing, but they just send in their actual physical portfolios.

Do you do by theme or could it be any portfolio?

Anything. Anything. And we have a huge critique space and we lay out all the portfolios that come in for that month. And 22 designers in the group just go through and circulate and we see who's out there and who's interested in working with us. So, that's one way that we identify who we might hire for particular projects.

Are you open to photographers being from anywhere or do you tend to hire local?

Anywhere. Anywhere. Yeah, anywhere.

And for the other divisions like the children's book divisions, do those usually come completed? Like, this is the illustration because it comes from an illustrator or how?

It can happen both ways. A proposal can come in and the author could be the author/illustrator. And then we're buying into that illustration and direction. But there are cases where there's an author and we need to find out who's going to visualize…

And the author is open to your choosing the illustrator with them? [What about] the concepts that come in that are completely formed by either a photographer or an illustrator who has an idea and "this is a visual story that I want to tell?" What is that process like? Does it show up only to the designer once it's really been bought off...?

Once it's like... the entire thing is...

Approved. Yeah.

Is just developed from words to images...

Would you see... somebody who has this idea for an illustrated children's book. This is somebody who has an idea for a photography book on a specific subject. Do you see that or do you only see that once you've actually said we are going to produce this book?

Oh no, no. We're in it from the beginning.

Oh, that's exciting.

We being designers... is that what the question is?

Yeah exactly. Exactly. You get to have a say as to what were going to be done.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. The groups meet around each category. The group comes together from the very first time their proposals come in. So, designers are part of the acquisition conversation and decision making.

Oh, that's really interesting.

Yeah. Because again, Chronicle is a visual publisher. So, if something might be good in concept but it's not going to be executed well, then we're not going to...

And now all of a sudden, you're stuck with it. Your like, "Wait, we don't want to produce this."

Yeah. Because our competitive advantage is that stuff looks great, looks fun and looks diverse. So, designers are in there from the beginning, evaluating acquisitions.

Is there an art buyer within the company? Or is everybody involved in looking?

No. No, there is no art buyer because the in-house art director/designer again is the one creating the vision and the one reaching out to form the relationships with the artist, art directing them, etc.

With the promotional cards that are sent here, does everybody keep their own? Is there a central place that everything is kept?

I think some people do keep... Different people have different filing systems. Some people don't file stuff at all. I have a list. I have, like, an entire drawer of stuff that I just throw in there. When it's time for me to hire for a project, I just kind of rifle through that.

Do you look at awards book, sourcebooks? Do books interest you to look at for resourcing?

We tend not to... The margins, in publishing, are not high. I think generally we have found that people who are in sourcebooks... if we're going through agents, things of that nature, the agent is going to take a 25% cut of the project. And in many cases it becomes prohibitive for the photographer...

Are their rates more like editorial or are publishing rates a completely different animal?

They're editorial.

Is there a standard kind of rate within the publishing industry that everybody knows?

I would say yes, certain publishers are higher than others. Certain projects are higher than others. Ours are pretty consistent across the board and I think they're absolutely in line with them, sometimes competitive to what other publishers are paying.

Do you find that the artist that you look for are more into style editorial or commercial or fine art? Is there a certain style of photographer or illustrator that you [tend to be] attracted to?

They tend to, definitely have to be, able to tell a visual story. I mean, that's obvious... anyone needs to be able to do that. But they tend to work both in the editorial industry and also the commercial industry, not as much by fine artists.

Is there a Chronicle look?

No. It's funny... I was in a conversation yesterday. You know, what is Chronicle's look and what is the brand? I think our brand is eclectic. It's about diversity and it's about always surprising people. Like, what the hell is that book? This is like, this is crazy. Or this is gorgeous or this is lovely. Who did it? Oh, it's Chronicle. I think that what we try to put out there, what we put out there, we always attempt to surprise and delight people who come to our books. And the way we do that is by publishing a lot of different stuff and a lot of different ways. So, is there one look? No.

And I notice, Chronicle has a blog. Do you find that you have people following certain artists?

Yeah. We have a very active fan base who engages with us, the blog...

So, that must be new. Like that idea of hearing more from the people who actually follow what Chronicle is doing. Now, they're actually giving you feedback about that. And has that changed at all the direction of who you end up using for photographers or illustrators? Did it introduce you to another idea or anything or…?

No, I don't think so. I think the feedback we get on the blog is generally really positive, so it's just sort of in support of what we put out there.

Encouraging. When you're looking for an artist and you go to their website, is there anything that you find is helpful on an artist website for you being able to see if you want to work with them? Are there certain things you find work or don't work on an artist website?

Gosh, it really depends on the... I don't think so. I think we're just looking at what their raw talent…

Do you get email promotions from artists?

Yeah, we do.

Do you open them? Do you look at them?

I open a good number of them. There are some that I do not open.

Is it the subject matter that would entice you to open certain ones? Does it matter if you know them or don't know them? What do you usually find is a compelling reason to open an email?

I think when it looks heavily commercial. When it obvioulsy looks like it was meant for...

Somebody else.

Someone else.

And they [send it] to you, right?

For an agency, for example. I'm not going to open it. I'm not an agency, you know? And I can get a sense of that immediately. If the content is more editorial in nature, I'm going to open it.

Do you have a sense as to whether you use more illustration or more photography?

Oh, I don't know. I really actually don't know how it plays out. We use a lot of both.

So much of both. That's great.

Yeah.

That's an interesting position for you to be in as a designer also to be able to work so much with both.

Yeah. I think people in different categories, for example, the Food and Drink people. They don't work with that many illustrators. The illustrators they work with are more technical illustrators, whereas the people in the Stationery group don't tend to work with a lot of photographers. Children's designers work with illustrators. The Entertainment people, they can work with both disciplines. So, it sort of depends on the category that we're talking about.

Is there prior experience an artist would have that would be helpful or not helpful? When you're looking for an artist, do you think "they've done this sort of thing before"... that actually is not good for us? Is there anything like that that comes up?

I don't think there's any experience that would dissuade us from using anybody. The way that we generally work, at least with photography, is that we turn over the full project budget to the photographer. And they're responsible for producing the shoot, hiring their stylists, their assistants, if there's a food style that's necessary, securing locations for themselves. They're in charge of the whole gig. So, if they're not a good producer or project manager, it's just not going to work because it's kind up to them to take that budget and pull it all together. Illustrators... I think we tend to have, things flow better if those illustrators obviously have experience with commercial clients. If they tend to be fine artists, sometimes they blow a deadline... things like that. So, having that sort of background, the professional background to sort of manage their time, is really, really important.

So, do you call in portfolios? Besides that once a month when you have portfolios, do you find that you end up calling portfolios or are you able to see enough of what you need from the websites?

If I'm interested in someone specifically, I can generally get a good enough sense of them from their online portfolio. Every once in a while I will call in a book, but very rarely. The books are great in our monthly portfolio review. That's the only way we would look at work in a monthly portfolio review. And very often people, who are tried and true go-to talent, still send in their books in those reviews... which is great because then we see updated work. But if I'm investigating a group of people for specific things, I'll go to their websites and that generally suffices.

Right. You see everything that's not…

And we're very conscious about... we don't want to have people ship stuff if it's not necessary. We run a tight ship and we don't like a whole of waste. So.

In the portfolio review, do you have a separate table for photography versus illustration or is it just all together.

It's photography, illustration, design, all at the same table. And that's a massive table.

And do you find that you're hiring more or less artists in general this year given the state of the economy? Has it changed the amount of work that you're producing?

We have made a conscious decision to reduce the number of projects that we publish just so we don't compete with ourselves. So, we can sort of put more behind each one... We still have the same MO... make photography and illustration sort of central to what it is we put out there. We certainly have some stuff that we don't illustrate.

But most of the work seems to be about using great artists.

Yeah.

All right. Well, thank you very much for your time.

You're welcome. Thanks for the visit.