Sandy Boss Febbo, Carmichael Lynch

Welcome! I wanted to know a little bit about the agency itself, how many art buyers you have, and how many producers… what is the difference in role between the producers and the buyers here?

There is no difference. The role is art producer at Carmichael Lynch, and we have three, including myself.

And do you work on specific accounts? Do different buyers work on specific accounts?

We do. We focus primarily on individual accounts. There are some that are too large for that to be the case, so there is overlap. Which provides an opportunity to do decent backup for when people are on vacation, or out.

And, typically, when an art director has a project, do they come to you with the photographers that they have in mind? Or, do they tell you “this is the concept, and can you find somebody?”

We get in on it early, which is the joy of the job, truly. During concepting, we drum up ideas with the art director, just executing their vision. We partner. Which is really lovely and a great opportunity. They’ve got plenty of opinion, and at times they’ve got a strong leaning, but…

And, what are the typical kinds of accounts that the agency works on, or the typical kinds of artists you look for here?

Our two biggest accounts are Subaru and Harley Davidson. So, definitely looking for a lot of landscape and metal. We like to take a fresh approach wherever we can, so we award projects to people who have shot metal before, which is really nice.

What's your typical process for looking for talent? How would you go about looking for an artist, once you have a project?

You know, it's a constant trolling. It's truly the part we all enjoy the most about the job, so we’re doing it on a daily basis. And then when a project comes through, and we know what we’re about to go to execute, we typically have people top of mind already, and then just dig in a little bit further. A lot of that happens online. We’ve awarded projects where we haven't even called in portfolios in the last year.

Wow, that’s amazing.

It is amazing.

And, do you refer back to your direct mail pieces?

Absolutely, yes.

And, do you look at source books?

Yes, we do, and truthfully… we find that they are hit and miss. It's very interesting to see the change in caliber of talent that’s in the book, and what the editing seems to be, the work that’s put forward… I want to see personal work. Seeing a commercial collaboration is hugely important, seeing a client list, seeing work that resulted from it. But I want to know what a photographer does on their own, what they are going to bring to it, because to me that is the best match for a project – signing someone who's so well-suited to do it, you could almost turn them loose and not even be there for it.

So, how much experience are you looking for from a photographer, when you're looking at their work? What’s important to you in their portfolio, or on their site?

It depends on the project. We had a project last year that a producer–who's moved now to Los Angeles–awarded to a shooter who’d never done a commercial assignment before. But he was so firmly part of his culture and what he was shooting, and his book was so much what we wanted to capture that it added that huge amount of credibility to the campaign. So, in that instance, not having a commercial collaboration experience was less important. But, we just knew that we were going to really have to handhold in that situation, and partner him with a very experienced producer to pull it off, and to satisfy our creative and our client.

So, you're open to using new people, established people?

Absolutely.

Are you more likely to use a local photographer or a national photographer? Is there one that you tend to lean towards, more?

You know, it's wide open. It truly depends on the project. For instance, this past year we had awarded a project for Subaru for a snow shoot, and any time that we’re chasing weather it's a unique experience. You're waiting for the stars to align, truly. We waited months for it to come through. We had two locations, one in California, one in Montana: no snow. No snow, for months, which was mind-blowing. But, we’re in Minnesota and we had a great snowstorm come through. And we had a wonderful photographer based here, Sean McKenzie, who is a long-standing friend and collaborator, that we turned to and said “we are going to grab a car from a local dealership, if you're game, we’re going to turn you loose to shoot this weekend.” And off he went. So, it's one we’ve awarded projects to, in a more thorough approach as well. We just shot a full campaign for the same client.

And typically, how many different photographers are you presenting to the art director to consider?

It depends on the art director, truly. Oftentimes, I’ll put forward a list of maybe 10 to 15 and, with some, they want to see more. Which is really fun because the search is so enjoyable. We look at all that work and can really consider, and have creative conversations with the different teams that you're considering to determine what it is they can bring together for the project. What the collaboration might be like, what the chemistry is like between the art director and artist. That part of it is really interesting.

And, at what point would you call in a portfolio?

Once we get a list down to maybe 5 or 6, then we would call in some books.

What are you looking for in the portfolio [that’s] different from what you have seen in the site?

Versus their site? Portfolio, I think, just the way that a book is edited, the work that they’ve put together, says a lot about their style, their eye. To me, it's a huge signifier if I flip through their book and see a couple of images that come across as somewhat stale or kind of a clunker, compared to the rest of the work. Because it makes me question what their potential edit might be.

The editing of the books is really important.

It really is.

Do you like seeing a lot, or would you rather just see fewer strong pieces?

I'm happy to flip through a book with many, many pages. I can think of a few photographers who have large cases and very heavy books, and it's probably more material than you need. But I'd rather have the opportunity to review it than feel like I'm not seeing enough, or too tight of an edit. I’ll ask for more material if that’s the case.

And, what about tear sheets, do you want to see tear sheets in their book?

You know what? I want to see a client list, and my favorite way to see tear sheets is a couple pages at the back, with thumbnails. Just enough to evidence the kind of work they did with another team.

Do you call other art buyers, once you’ve seen that somebody has worked with somebody? Do you call to find out how the experience was?

We have. Absolutely. Not consistently. We’ve checked references through different art buyers and art directors in the past, depending on the project and the client.

Have you seen a change in the type of artist you're looking for now, than in years past? Has there been any change of request of types of artist?

Oh, not really.

And, have you seen a change in style that the clients want… is there a trend of any type happening right now, that people are saying “Oh, I want a certain look to the film, or a certain look to the lighting,” that seems to be popular right now?

For us… it's a self-directed thing. With one of our clients in particular, we’re after photography that really captures moments, that feels less contrived. So, a very fresh and spontaneous approach and maybe a little less perfection to the image. Something that gives the image… it breathes… is really key.

Are the clients more or less involved in the decision-making than they were previously?

You know, I would have to say that… maybe they're as, if not less, involved. I feel really fortunate. I can't think, honestly, where I've really recently had to work hard to sell something through. Our recommends come through very solidly. And very considered.

And, are you finding that the creative decision or the pricing decision is making the final choice on the photographer?

Both. Absolutely. Creative decision is first and foremost... you don’t want to give anything up in executing the work that we produce. But, budgets are an enormous consideration right now. There's not much to go around, so we need to be really careful about how we approach production and where we can make concessions. I've found that the teams we’re interested in working with understand that. And, where we can, we make it happen.

And, they’ve been working with you.

Definitely. I would never walk away from somebody because I don’t think they're attainable. I'd let them say no to me and my budget, if that’s the case.

Right, so you're letting them know up front, this is what we have to work with.

Definitely. No smoke and mirrors. It's my policy.

Are you buying more or less stock photography, because of this?

You know, it's about equal. We’re definitely giving a bigger lean to royalty-free than rights-managed. I have not seen much of a price adjustment in rights-managed stock photography in the last two years, which blows my mind, truly.

It's higher than you think it would be?

Yes, absolutely.

Actually, that gives an advantage to the assignment work, right?

Definitely.

Well, that’s good. And, what about illustration? How much illustration do you use versus photography?

Honestly, not enough. We have short attention spans… we like to do it all and try different things. So, when a project comes along that involves some of that, it's really a joy. But, photography is still 80 to 90 percent of what we do.

Do you find there are certain key photographers you work with a lot, or are you constantly trying to find photographers you haven't worked with?

When a project is right to cast the wide net, we love to do it. With one our clients in particular, we had a really successful shoot last year with a photographer who just did a knockout job and became the instant “shortlist of one” for projects coming forward. We looked at others, but they paled in comparison. I think he's on a … project, shooting right now.

How much do you feel like you need to know about the photographer before you hire them to go on a shoot with your clients?

Enough that I can say that they’ve done some work, if the project really requires it. Or if the client comfort level is going to mandate that they’ve got enough experience. I’ll have solid conversations with their agents and reps, which may not be the most unbiased avenue of information, but I expect full transparency. Creative calls are huge, and they tell us a lot.

And, do you go on shoots?

Yes, we do.

And, what would be the best way for an artist to get noticed by you? What kind of outreach could they do for you to be like, “Oh, I'm interested in that person”?

It’s all about the work however it comes in… if it's a printed piece… if it's email blast…

How many printed pieces are you getting in a given week?

A lot. In fact I’ll show you on the way out. We have a wall downstairs with everyone’s mail slots and mine is, like, a four-wide because of everything that comes through. So, it's pretty overwhelming. But, as I said earlier, it's one of my most favorite parts of the job – working with the talent that’s out there is really incredible. I think that, for me, email works really well. I may get 100 promo emails a day, but I’ll look at all of them. My edit happens quickly, but I look at everything.

And do you go to their website sometimes?

If the piece that’s in the email is an image that causes me to pause, absolutely.

Is there anything about the email structure that’s helpful for you to see? Is it a single image? Is it that it tells a story? What helps make an email promo compelling?

Image, first. If it's a single image, that’s fine. It needs to carry a lot more weight, if it is. But, that’s okay. Story, less so. Just because I don’t necessarily have the time to read the background on everything. And, if it's an image that’s compelling enough, then I’ll find a way to dig in or bookmark it for later.

And, when you go to the website, is there anything in particular about artist websites that you find should be organized a certain way? Or would you prefer that they didn’t do something on their sites that you see people do?

A site that’s over-designed. I can appreciate the design and attention that goes into it, but for me, you know, it's a single vantage point. I need to be able to look at the work, and look at it quickly. So, load time is something to have, some thumbnails on the side, and being able to click through the images at my own pace is really, really key.

Do you want them to be set up by categories on the site?

Depending on what they were shooting… that’s helpful, yeah… if they have a range to break it out, but that’s not necessarily the case.

And, how big do you need the image to be on the site? Is it okay if they're small, so that they load faster?

Oh, sure. As far as downloading a file? Yeah, not a problem. I can follow up to request it, if needed. I'd rather have it load quickly so I can go through the site.

How often do you meet with the artists or their reps in person?

We schedule probably three in-person reviews a week.

Does that make a difference to somebody… actually getting the job? Do you find that personal connection can actually make a difference?

You know, it can. Traveling around the country is an expensive proposition. When it works out, I've found that it really can add another layer of interest to working with someone when you meet them. It's just like having one of the creative calls. When you find that the chemistry is right, it entices you to work with them, so it can be very beneficial.

What about awards that the artist has won? Does that influence your decision? Does that make you feel any differently about the person, or is that just another way to find them?

It’s another way to find them. But, it's not a path I often take. I think it's a nice nod, certainly, from the industry, for them to receive these awards. But I have to confess that we have a wall full of awards downstairs for the advertising we have done, and I pay very little attention to it. For me, it's about the next project. I'm really grateful for what we've done, but I couldn’t even list them out for you.

How many different photographers do you work with in a given month?

Not enough.

Has it changed over time, or is it sort of consistent?

I think we’re producing less than we used to, and that’s by virtue of… our agency has gotten a bit smaller in the past two years. Our roster is tighter than it has been, so we have fewer projects that are rolling through. We’re doing more work for fewer clients. But, that’s then an issue, since I began this 13 years ago, I have such respect for the work out there, I’ll never have enough projects to work with everyone I have interest in working with.

And, how long have you been with the agency?

13 years.

Is this the first place where you were a buyer, or were you a buyer somewhere else?

No, this is the first place that I was a buyer.

Were there buyers here before that?

Mm-hmm.

Because, the buyer system has only been around in the last 20 years, right?

This is true. It was the art buying department when I joined… it switched to art production, maybe eight years ago. We were doing more in the line of production and commissioning work than we were in licensing and buying… The department had been around for four or five years before I joined it. And, it was started [by] Kat Dalager who is now over at Campbell Mithun. So, she put the system into place. And, it's been rolling ever since.

How old is the agency?

We’re in our 40s.

Are you associated with other agencies in other cities?

We have a PR division that has satellite offices, and we also have a dealer network team for one of our clients…

Do you do work with them also? Do you advise them about who they are using, working with?

Definitely. Any production for the agency will come through us.

What kind of industry magazines or websites do you like to look at?

All of them. Some with more frequency than others, but definitely… I like to look at the lesser known, the unexpected places, too. That’s half the fun.

Do you find that you might find talent through art shows or other places like that as well?

Absolutely. We have a great local website that’s put together by the Walker Art Center and the McKnight Foundation that has a beautiful database of artists in the region. We have another site called Minneapolis Artists, that not only lists current things going on for the weekend, but really great solid art shows that are coming through. And, a number of great little galleries around town.

And, do you attend industry events? Is that a way that people can go and possibly meet you?

You know what? I'm not that great about that. To be perfectly honest, we don't have that many that come through the city. We all know each other, but we don’t have that many events.

And, what about the social websites? Do you ever look at talent through any of those places?

Not necessarily.

What about blogs?

I love blogs. I love them. I have a laundry list of blogs bookmarked.

Okay… Great! Thank you very much for your time, I appreciate it.