Aric Rist, Nike

Welcome to Art Buyer’s Lounge. I wanted to hear a little bit about your background, if you could tell us a little of how you came about being in this position.

Wow. It's a long road. Actually, I studied graphic design in school. And then, shortly after, I worked for Kodak and, gosh, this was way back in...

In New York?

No. Actually, I worked for their digital lab, which was right outside of Washington DC. It was the beginning of digital photography. So, scanning, photo CD, all that kind of new media for photography. Digital photography was new. So, people were trying to get their slides, stock agencies were trying to get their slides onto photo CD. So, I worked there for five years and it was kind of one of those jobs where you knew it was a great experience, but you knew you weren't going to stay.

You weren't going to stay there.

It's pretty much leave all your creativity at the door kind of scenario.

But, be up on all the latest technology ahead of everyone else. How exciting.

Exactly. And you get to work with great photographers. You have to work with great photographers in the stock industry, which was awesome. So, the whole intent there, and I'm not going to keep going into that whole Kodak thing, but the whole intent there, they saw the vision, to get all this film and slide and other photography into a digital database immediately. This was back in like '92 or something.

Oh, really early.

Yeah, so we worked with National Geographic and a whole bunch of other stock agencies to try to get all that imagery in a digital format. So, I worked there for five years and then kind of figured things out. But anyway, I came out to Portland, to Oregon, and worked in the photo studio here at Nike. They have an on campus photo studio. So, I worked mainly as a producer working closely with brand design on photo shoots and what have you. And then I evolved the role into art buyer/global brand photography manager, which is the official long title here. And now, we have a very small core team that we work on all the brand focused global photo shoots around the world.

Do you oversee the way the photo shoots are handled, that they stay true to the brand message?

Absolutely, and I think that's important. I think that's an important call out for what we do in a corporate environment. It's a little bit different because it's not an agency. But, we kind of treat ourselves as an agency where we work with slivers of different categories within Nike. And then, we understand the brand message for each category internally, and then we can source, obviously, photographers or other talent for those particular projects. But also, keep kind of true to where we're going and we see the long term plan. It's not just, “Let's get through this shoot, and then we're done and we go on to the next client.” It's more, “Get through the shoot. But, we know we have three other initiatives that we want to work on throughout the next year-and-a-half or two years.”

So, if any shoot is taking place, do they always contact your department to make sure that you're aware of anything that's happening with Nike?

Yes.

Or, in theory, right?

Yeah, in theory. Most of the time, there are some instances where creative directors have relationships with photographers, and a lot of creative directors like to interact with photographers directly as well and we respect that. But, I would say the majority of the work–that global brand works on–does come through our team, involved with that. And they'll also negotiate sometimes on the back-end for athlete approvals and such. So, they push that through. We just don't have the bandwidth.

I was impressed about the size of Nike to begin with, driving up here. It takes as long to find your building as it does to get from Portland to here. So, how many people are at Nike?

I believe there's anywhere from 30,000 to 35,000 worldwide. On campus, I think the last number I heard was around 6,000.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah.

That's very impressive. When you're looking at an artist's work, is there a certain brand type that you think, “Oh, this is a Nike type of photographer or illustrator?”

Yeah, I think so. But again, it's interesting because we have different categories. We have six different categories, I guess you could say almost sports that we focus on. And within those categories, we know how, or we try to know how the art directors, or the creative direction is going to kind of flow. Maybe that's the not right way to describe it. But, having those kinds of insights within those specific categories is really important because they all want to work different. They kind of want to own their own look, and their own feel and their own brand message to the consumer. It's completely different. Women's training is going to be completely different to athletic training, which is football and baseball and such. So, yes, there's definitely kind of a Nike look. But, I think lately, we've been trying to stay away from that and have more of an open approach to photography. Maybe we've been really looking outside the box on how we source photography, and how we look at different photographers, and having a voice and being able to present that confidently to marketing or what have you, on how we can definitely bring something new to the table for consumers.

Do you find that you need to work with established talent? Does it matter to you if it's a new emerging talent, or if it's somebody who really knows how to produce? Are there any type of artists that's more important for you to work with?

I think it depends, of course, on the project. With athletes photo shoots, I think it's definitely important to work with someone who has a really good, strong portfolio with athletes… And to look at the work, and to have the experience of working with Nike and knowing how to work with a Nike photo shoot; it's important, too. It's not just about… we have our nuances, right? Every company does. So, some photographers get that. Some don't. So, if we were going to work on a project with an athlete that was really important and we had a really small time frame, yeah, we would have to look to a photographer that's worked with us before. If it's a new project and we want to try something new, we're open to working with someone completely new, and trying something completely different and see how it goes.

And how much illustration do you use?

Maybe 10%...10% of the time we're looking at illustration. I think it's going to become more prevalent, especially with the economy and finding new ways to deliver a brand message beyond the table...

And promotion material that's sent to your department, is it organized in any way? Is it kept in any one place?

Yeah, absolutely. Normally, if we really like something, we have our area that we display what we like. We have a big board that we display cards, promo cards. Then, we'll file them for a while and then we have to clean it out because it's get unwieldy after about six months. But, yeah we definitely keep cards that we really like, or cards that we think that other people would like, or that we need to share we'll definitely keep. We used to keep a big file on everything. But now, with digital and the Web, we really don't need to keep a huge file, just really core [promos] of photographers that we really like to share.

Are there certain types of promos that you've noticed get kept more than other types?

As far as printed goes?

Yeah, printed materials.

Personally, I like just the one image on a card kind of deal and that says a lot to me. I love and I appreciate the printing that goes behind some of the really beautiful promos that people send and I'll keep those, absolutely. And I'll usually keep them for a long time. But, to share or to get it in my head quickly, it's about the postcard or the one or two images on the card. To me, that's a quick way to get a read on a photographer, and especially if it's a photographer we've never worked with or heard of.

And what about emails? Do you receive email promotions?

Oh, yeah.

And what do you think about those?

I like them and I make it a point to check out every single email promo, believe it or not, that comes in.

That's impressive.

Yeah, thanks. I just think if someone's taking the time to send it to me, I want to take the time to at least check it out. I can tell really quick if it's going to be maybe a fit for Nike, or if I'm interested in looking at more.

And when you look at the site, what are you looking for?

As far as content, or as far as navigation?

Yeah, what do you like in a site?

In a site, I like maybe a sidebar with thumbnails, and then a main image and that's it. I don't like automated. I don't need all the Flash, and bells and whistles. Being able to pull images off of it, too, is really nice to send to creatives here. But, simplicity is key. Thumbnails, again. I like categories in photography as well if the photographer wants to list their reportage and then their sports photography, kids photography, what have you. I like that, to be able to click in there. But really, concise, kind of simple navigation is nice.

Do you receive a lot of work that's not relevant at all… that you think, “Why did this person send it?”

Yes.

Where they just picked every name?

Yeah, I do.

Is that ridiculous to you?

Sometimes, when I look at the image, I'm questioning, “Why are they sending this to me?” I don't think it's ridiculous. I think that it's up to me to decide whether or not I want to look at it or not.

Is there a certain type of photographer that you usually think of? Does it tend to be a fashion photographer or somebody who understands the sports industry? What type of artist do you tend to lean towards?

It's all across the board. We look at fashion as well because… I hate to say that “F” word, but we do look at fashion. It provides a lot of inspiration. But also, for our athlete shoots, sometimes when we're doing portraiture, we'll look outside of the box and try to see if we can find a photographer that can bring something to the table. So, it's about partnering with the photographers a lot of time. We have a clear art direction. But, at the same time, I think a lot of art directors want to go out and they want to partner with a photographer who's going to bring something. It's not just about flicking the shutter. It's not about hiring a technician. It's about hiring an artist. So, in that sense, we will look at fashion. But also, we're particular, again, since we have such a large segmented, different type of categories, different types of sports, each category works differently. If we were to do any kind of shoot with motion, we would definitely look at someone who shoots motion really well and that's been a challenge, too. That's kind of specific to Nike, I think.

Do you have an in-house studio that does some collateral photography?

We do, yeah. And they can do the full gamut. They can do… and it's quick terms, fully digital, of course. We can do athlete shoots there. They do a lot of product, a lot of PR, a lot of concepting as well and some test shoots, too.

Do you ever do the shoots at the same time as the commercial?

Yeah, absolutely.

So then, the photographer has to know how to work around the shoot that’s being done, right?

Absolutely, yeah. And they have to just deal with it, roll with it.

Is that because you only have the athlete for a certain amount of time, so you're like, “OK. Let's do it all.”

Exactly, exactly. And usually, the brand's still a part. It's usually last. It's not first and we have the shortest amount of time. So then, back to your question about how we source photographers. Again, it's important that we work with someone who has the experience of working in that kind of scenario because not everyone can do that.

Have you seen a change of the style of work that you are looking for lately than you used to look for?

I think so, yeah. Again, since there's so many different categories and each category tries to do their own branding on their imagery, it's across the board what type of photography people are trying to get. But, I think generally speaking, I think the trend, and this goes for other work outside and within other companies, too. What I'm seeing is it's more real, more in the moment photography, which is beautiful. It's more relevant to the actual sport that the people are participating in.

Has there been any type of work that you've looked for that you didn't find the artist? You thought, “Oh, I'd like a photographer who does this,” and then you went to look for it and you thought, “Oh, that's not so easy to find.”

Right now, I could say this because I'm trying to find this right now. I'm trying to find really good color stories with people and landscapes, both. So, the color has to, the apparel, whatever they're wearing has to tell a color story and the scenario that they're in is a really strong color story as well. That's been real challenging because you either get one or the other, or you get really strong fashion, or you get kind of like a highly processed landscape or something like that.

And as far as the retouching and the effects that are done, do you like the photographer to be in charge of all that, or do you control that on this end?

Involved, I would say involved. Most of the time we partner with people here in town on the retouching work or post work. Nike's got really, really, really quick. Most photographers can't or their retouchers can't even come close to turning around images.

Why are your deadlines so tight?

I think because we create so much content and things happen on the fly. Things change.

Is that the nature of this particular industry because it's sports related. So, somebody's hot and you need them visible now?

Yeah, it could be. It's very competitive and I think that we have such a brilliant creative team, and such an awesome marketing team that they're constantly thinking about things, and things come up and ideas come up and then everybody gets on board with it right away and it's like, “Let's just do this right away.”

And where do most of your shoots take place? Are they locally? Are they around the country?

All over the world, really. I think most of them, and I think the economy's going to dictate this, I think most of them, in the future, are going to happen on the west coast for a while.

Do you get to go?

Yeah.

That's good.

Absolutely, it's good. It's very good.

And you have seen a change in budgets for the shoots that you have?

Yeah, absolutely. And I've also seen willingness from photographers and agents to work within those parameters too, which has been great. It's more collaborative. It's definitely more creative in the creative planning process.

Do you ever choose a photographer because of their location, or do you just look for the talent that you want and wherever they are, they are?

Yeah, sometimes. It depends. It depends on the budget, it depends on the creative direction a little bit. I know it's a wishy-washy answer. But, it's the truth. I would say, normally, creative always is king, right?

Right.

The creative direction is going to drive. And then, we'll see if we can make it work within budget. And budget's second, believe it or not. And then, we try to work within those parameters.

Right. And Nike being one of the places that people would most want to work, were there times that you really wanted a photographer and then they weren't able to or willing to for the price? Is there anybody you wanted to work with that you found that you ended up not being able to work with?

Because of the budget, or because of the timing that you were like, “Wow! I thought everybody wanted to work here,” and then you didn't get to work with somebody.

There are some. There are some photographers. But, most people, that's the luxury.

They'll find a way.

Yeah, that's the luxury of working where we work. It's awesome. We get to work with the best photographers in the world and most people are really excited about it.

Yeah. So, you have your wish list of people you want to work with, too?

Yeah.

Working your way through it?

Exactly, exactly.

How many different promos to you get on a given day or week?

Well, we get both. We get digital and then we get, also, printed. I would say, for printed pieces, we probably get anywhere from 20 to 40. That's a big range. But, that's how many pieces that I get. And then, emails a day, anywhere from 15 to 30, somewhere in there.

Are they usually nationally, or do you find you're getting stuff from around the world now?

I'm starting to get more stuff around the world, lately. But, most of it's national.

Do you have counterparts in the other countries that you would email to and say, “Hey, did you check out this person in your country?”

Yeah. We have a European office in Holland as well. And then, we have an Asia-Pacific office. All the time, I'll forward stuff and they'll forward stuff to me as well, “Hey, we worked with this great photographer who's based in New York. But, he flew over for our shoot in Paris. You should check him out.” Things like that. And the same goes for our agencies, too. The agencies will often send photographers our way and we try to do the same for them.

Do you have an idea of how many different photographers you might work within a given month or year?

Well, I would say probably about 15 to 20 in a year.

Is your tendency to work with the same people because you know them and they know that there's a relationship there, or do you tend do try to use different people because you want to have that experience?

For category photo shoots, we try to establish a relationship first. And then, if it goes well and we really like it, we try to hold that for a while and see how long we can hold it until we want to mix it up again. It's kind of rare that we're going to go to a photographer new, and if it's a campaign that's similar for the next season that we're going to try something completely new. We do have definitely a stable of photographers that we work with on a regular basis. I would say that that's anywhere from 10 to 15 photographers.

Do you have a lot of multiple bidding going on?

Yeah, especially now. I think now we're going to have to do that because we're asked to do that. We're asked to bring cost down. That's our role and that's where we add value. First and foremost, again, is the creative direction. Let's focus on “who is your top photographer, guys.” Let's figure that out. Let's try to make it work and then give me your second and third option, and we'll try to make it work. And if we can't make the first one work because of budget, then we'll go back and forth. But I try not to do this whole hitting agencies against each other and cost driving everything. The challenge for us is to bring the cost down, of course, keep costs down. But, at the same time, deliver on a creative and that's really important. It's not just about one or the other.

Do you ever buy stock imagery?

Yes, we do. We often use it for a lot of compositing as well to build backdrops. We use stock photography, actually, in sport. For in-competition, which is really important...

And what are you seeing as far as going forward, the direction of work that's going to happen? Do you think there's going to be more assignment photography ahead? What's your sense about the marketplace right now and how things are going?

Good question. That's a really good question. I think, to your questions earlier about, “Do you work with a photographer regularly?” I think it's going to be about getting those relationships and keeping them for a while just for the comfort zone, creatively. And then also, because they'll understand and know how to work with Nike. I think it's really important because, again, we have our nuances. We have our quirks and a lot of photographers work really well with that. Some don't. So, I think it's important to be able to have that. It's more of like a creative collaboration through photography. It's, hopefully, a little bit longer term. It's not like, “Let's get this done and we're done. Let's move to another photographer and we're going to start all over again explaining how we work, explaining what we're going to do and all that.” So, for the future, I think that's the focus that we're going to try to achieve.

Yeah, core team.

Yeah.

I'm going to ask another question here. The question is about photographer blogs, what's happening now with places like Facebook and Twitter. Do you follow any photographers that way? Do you look for photographers that way?

Absolutely, absolutely. I think it's important, especially on blogs to see the personal side. And then, even personal work on the blogs is really interesting to us. When we call in books, we often ask, especially if we're doing kind of a reportage art buy on a photographer, we'll ask if they have any personal work, any Polaroids or anything like that. Facebook, we do follow a couple of photographers there as well. The only thing that I would caution against is showing behind the scenes stuff on photo shoots, especially for Nike. I don't want to see that. What I want to see is their outtakes on a photo shoot that they may think is relevant or something that they want to share as an artist. But, definitely, I think it's a new way of looking deeper into how a photographer works, their sensibility and whether or not they're having fun. That's pretty important that they really enjoy and are really passionate about it. It's not just a job.

So, the personal side of them matters.

Yeah, absolutely. It's about a relationship at the end of the day with photographers.

Do you have a Facebook page, Twitter pages? Do the people of Nike do that here on this side?

Yeah, we were asked to do that, to learn a little bit more about how social media works. This was a couple of years ago. So, a lot of people at Nike have Facebook and Twitter.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Something to watch for.

Yeah.

Well, thank you very much. Thanks for spending some time with us.

Thank you. It's been a pleasure.