Marni Beardsley, Wieden+Kennedy

So, first of all, if you could tell me a little bit about who you are, and tell me about your background and what brought you to art buying.

170 years ago…

Wow, you don't look a day over 100.

Jesus, it was 16 years ago. Well, I had graduated from college and the thing was, it was not anything like it is today with how bad the economy was. But, it was the early '90s and it was not good by any stretch of the imagination. You had to figure out what you were going to be doing and I... really didn't have a clue what I wanted to do. Photography was just a side hobby for me, really. But I always liked fashion and styling. So, I started when I was waiting tables. I started styling for some department stores here in town, window displays, that kind of thing. And then I landed a gig as a stylist for a photographer and was doing that every now and again because there wasn't a lot of work going on. Came across an art buyer at Wieden+Kennedy, zeroed in on that, thinking, “That's what I want to do.” I wanted to be behind the scenes, more of a production role. I didn't even know it existed, frankly.

And how long have you been here?

Sixteen years. That was forever ago and that took me two years to pound the pavement. That was 18 years ago. It took me a while.

But that was the first time they had art buyers anyway. They were only just starting to introduce the idea of art buyers.

Yep. There was two here at the time. Right now, we have eight... There was two at the time and, yeah, it was just getting going. It was 1993.

Are the art buyers here assigned to specific art directors? Or does everybody work on everything? How do you split up the work with the art buyers?

We're assigned to different clients and different categories within those clients. And then if there's ever any overwork, we split it up that way. We've got two art buyers that are strictly Nike-related. We have one P&G art buyer, one Heineken; I work on Coke; Target art buyer. So, you get a really good understanding of that client, what that client needs... the branding. You really get entrenched with them as well as the art directors that are working under that brand.

Do you get a lot of direction from the art directors about what they want? Or do you find that you're doing a lot of research and going to the art directors with the research that you've done?

I'd say it's a little bit of both. With the senior art directors, you're doing less research because they really know what they want. They're more seasoned. They have a vision for what they want. They're more familiar with artists, whether it's illustrators or photographers. Oftentimes, they're rattling off who they want to work with. For those senior art directors, we still provide other backup examples. We always should be on the cutting edge of who's out there, whether they're up and coming, whether they're seasoned… Here's their latest work. And even if it's the most senior art director, we need to show them like, “Okay, I know you really want to work with Joe Schmoe here. But have you also looked at these people?” Just to make sure that we're doing due diligence in our job. For the junior art directors, it's a totally different game. They're still even trying to figure out the process within the agencies. So, we're helping guide them with that as well as like, “And here's the next step. We look at these books, we look at these websites.” We're taking them through it oftentimes.

Is there more pressure because it's Wieden+Kennedy, about picking people that are really creative photographers or illustrators?

I would say so. I mean that's how we are. It's ingrained in us that creativity comes first before anything else and that we need to be doing something that's different and fresh and thinking ahead of things and not just going with the same people and not just doing the same old thing. If we start doing that, stop evolving, then we've just shot ourselves in the foot. So, yeah. To some extent, I think there's a little bit of pressure.

What about using somebody who's really established versus using somebody that nobody has used before? Is there any sense of a preference about it being a new talent or it being a really solid, established talent?

It's all about the work. To me, it's all about what we see in their portfolio, what we see on their website. Yes, it does come up. Like "what's this photographer like? What are they like to work with?" And oftentimes, it is someone we've worked with before and we can answer that. If we can't, if it's someone up and coming, we either talk to them more and spend an hour on the phone with them just getting a sense of who they are, what kind of personality they have, will they jive well with our clients and just kind of doing that due diligence and research on that person. Or we'll talk to their agency, “Tell me more about this person.” Especially if it's an A-lister we've never worked with before, there's a little bit of, “Okay, so are they going to have an ego behind this?” What degree of an ego behind this? What will they be like to work with and will they be able to roll with all the things that the client will throw at them.

And I imagine a lot of the people you work with are from out of town, so a lot of the artists you may not have met before.

Yes.

Is there any preference about using somebody from out of town when you have a bigger budget because you feel like you already know all the local people?

It so depends on the work. To me, it doesn't matter if they're here in Portland or if they're in New York or London. It's based on what is their portfolio show? How does it pertain to our layouts and the client's needs? It's all about that and I don't care if they're in frickin’ Alaska. What is their work about? And does it marry? Does it match well with the concept at hand?

And what about tearsheets? How important is seeing that they've already produced jobs? How important is that to you?

It is at times, definitely. We often do shoots with talent or athletes, and have they worked with high-profile celebrities? Have they worked with athletes before? Are they going to get, you know, the shot in 10 minutes? Because oftentimes, the athlete walks in and says, “You’ve got 10 minutes,” and we thought we had three hours. You never know what's going to happen. So, yeah. Sometimes, in those cases it's like, OK, what's in their book that's shown that they've worked with difficult or challenging people? Or have they worked in the advertising game before? Let's see some produced work.

Do you get input from the athlete or their publicist? Or do they say, “Oh, we like this photographer, but not this one?” Or is it…?

From the publicist of the athlete?

Yeah.

Oh, you bet. Oftentimes, we have to present. We present it internally to our creative director: "Here’s the photographer we want.” Then we go to our client, make sure that they're set with it. And then if it's a high-profile athlete or celebrity, it goes to them and their publicist is all over it like who, you know…

Who it is.

Who it is. Do they have a good reputation? All that kind of stuff.

So, tell me a little bit about the promotions that you receive here. How many pieces of promo do you get in a given week?

I can swim in it. I get so much. You could go up to my desk and you can see it just stacking up next to it. It's hard for me to go through it, have the time to go through it. Although, it's a part of my job and I need to, it's hard to keep up with it, quite frankly.

Is it typically cards or do you find that you're getting more books now that people are making their own books? What do people usually send?

It's a little bit of both. Agents primarily send mini-books of all the photographers that they represent. I just received a beautiful Martin Schoeller book as a gift. So, there's that for the A-list photographers who have a produced book. And then, more of the up-and-comers or people that are operating without an agent, I get postcards or packaged pieces of some form. It's a little bit...

[Do you look at them] when you get them?

Honestly, if it's something that's in a postcard and I can see the image without having to open anything, I will check it out and if I like it, I keep it in whatever genre that person's work is. So, if it's a still-life photographer, it goes in my still. And if I really like it, I'll check out their website. If it's in an envelope, and honestly, I don't have a lot of time, it gets recycled and I don't even open it.

Do you share with the other buyers? Does everybody have their own file box, or do you have one main where everybody goes to?

We all have our own. If we really like something that we haven't seen before, we send an email out between us and say, “Hey, check this person out.” Or, “Did you see this?” Or we'll talk about it as well. We'll often share notes about, “Check this person's website out. Check this mailer I received,” that sort of thing.

Have you received any unusual kinds of promos that really stood out to you?

I wouldn't say unusual. Clever books, clever calendars... well done and well executed, something that you want to have on your desk, actually.

And do you find that those people end up getting called in because of it? Or do you just appreciate the quality of it?

Oh, I'd say they can get called in, for sure. Again, it's about the image. It's about the work. I mean, yeah, how you package it is definitely something... But, it's about that image. Is it something I've seen a thousand times? If so, I'm probably not going to pay much attention to it. Is it something gorgeous, or beautiful, or weird, or irreverent, or whatever, then I'm going to take notice of it and it's going to go in my filing system. I'm going to explore their website for sure.

What about emails? How many emails do you get every day?

Oh, my God. It's a funny thing. I always wake up and there's, like, 15. I don't know if there's some systems they do in the middle of the night that you wake up and here they all are. I get a lot. I'd probably say 25 to 50 a day.

Do you open them?

It depends.

Is there certain subject matter that you would more likely open?

Like on the subject line?

Yeah.

Yeah. This is a clever, “Hey Marni, how's it going?” Do I know this person? Is it a friend from whatever? I've got to open it.

It could be spam.

Do I remember you or whatever? I'll generally open those because I won't know if it's a promo or not and that's kind of a smart way to get me in there.

Do you then keep the emails, or do you organize them, or do you even look at them?

If they're good. If they're good, I will keep them. If they have a good image. And you know, I often like kind of a human approach to their email just saying, “Hey, you're probably bombarded with these all the time. But, I'm just trying to make my living doing what I'm doing down here in Texas. I shoot a bunch of random stuff.” If it's funny, if it's cleverly written… then I'll be kind of drawn into this person and getting to know this person on some level. Next thing I know, I'll be checking out this work. But if it's the usual, “Hi, I'm a great sports photographer and I've done so many things across the world. Aren't I great?” I kind of just, “Yep.” It doesn't resonate with me.

And then, when you go to their website, is there anything in particular that you immediately notice on the website that you think, “Oh, this is going to be interesting,” or that immediately makes you not want to go farther?

If it takes too long. If there's music associated with it. If it's like, “Here's your next step to get into the next category.” I just want to be able to pop up the website and then, Boom! I see an image. I don't want another step. I don't want music. I don't want anything to slow it down at all. And if there's a good, well-designed website that you can tell that they have good taste, then I'm going to peruse their categories within in it and I want those to be fast, too.

So easy to go through.

Easy and quick to navigate is so key.

And how often do you actually see people? Do people come by and show you their portfolios?

All the time and we encourage that… just to be able to do our job well and like your question earlier, speak to, what is this person like? Even if we haven't worked with them, oftentimes we've met them for a portfolio review, or just to sit down and look at their book. We could speak to like, “Hey, I really got a good vibe from this person and I thought their work was great.” So, people that come through town… we obviously get the agencies that come through all the time and they share all their books and they bring beer, wine, whatever. That always entices people to come by. But we do get independents that either are based around here or are coming through town and stop by and share their work. And our assistant, it's a part of her job to make sure that we take all these people because you know, our doors are always open. And they have to be if we're going to be always keeping our eyes open for who's out there, and the kind of work that is out there and the kind of people that are behind that work.

Are you seeing any change in the portfolios that are being sent to you or when you have a portfolio review? Has the style of portfolios changed in any way or do you think they should? What is your feeling about portfolios?

I wouldn't say that they've changed overly now. I'd say, for the most part, they're the... standard black portfolio book. Every now and again someone will come up with... you can kind of tell they're on a budget. But they'll find a clever way of presenting their work and that will catch your eye, too.

What do you usually show the art director? Would you show them the portfolio? Or do you show them the websites?

Both. But, I tend to really want to look at the book and I will insist on getting that in because oftentimes, on the website, it looks better than it does when you see the actual print, the actual work. I think that's just kind of like what technology allows… is to make everything look a little bit better than it does. And the printed piece, to me, is always going to stand on its own a little bit stronger.

What about Facebook or blogs or places like that for photographers? Have you found any photographers by looking at sites like that?

Photographers have definitely found me on Facebook and I think it's smart. I think it's a really smart way to advertise yourself. It's just like, “Hey,” you know. And usually, if I even have some sort of a relationship with them or have spoken with them before, I'll accept their invitation request and will do a quick scan of their photos on Facebook.

Is there a way that you prefer to be contacted by artists who want to reach you?

Email, most definitely. I'd rather not have a conversation when I least expect it on the phone; pick up my phone and I’ve got a thousand things to do and someone just wants to give me their sales pitch. I don't have time; it frustrates me.

Right. You want to look at it at your leisure.

Yeah, at my leisure and email is the best way to do that.

And how often is the right amount that you feel for somebody to be contacting you with new images?

Oh, before we would even say the timing of that, I would say, do you have something to say with your images? Do you have something that you've done that you're proud of? If you've done something amazing with your work and if it happens to be every couple weeks, great. And if a couple months go by between something that you are especially proud of... not just because you just took a picture and you're like, “Here's what I just did.” Do you really love it? Is it great? Because you can water down your own work by just sending out everything that you've done. It has to be great. But, you know, generally, every month or two is ideal so that I have a recognition of that person. Again, I would make it really smartly written and personable, not too long. And again, it all comes down to the images that you're sending and just saying like, “Hey, I just shot this for this magazine.” Or “I just did this advertising campaign,” or whatever. But again, it has to be something that's not like, “Oh, I just went out, and look at these pictures.” Yes, if they're amazing pictures, great. But, it does help if it's associated with something that you did editorially, if a photographer did it editorially, or advertising.

Do you find that, more often, you are using new talent or that you tend to go back to the people you've worked with before?

Total hybrid of both. I'd say probably mostly people that we've gone to before. But obviously they got in there some way in the beginning and we will work with new people for sure. I mean that's what we're here for. You know, it can't always be the same thing. If it looks the same, then we're not evolving.

Do you see more or less assignments being commissioned than in previous years?

I would say less, for sure. I mean the economy sucks right now and people are kind of holding back on production. I will say just in the last month, we're slammed. It seems like it's picking up again.

And what about stock, does the agency use a lot of stock imagery?

We do. I wouldn't say we use lots. It's primarily due to our accounts. Accounts like Nike and Target, you know, they are apparel lines and shoe lines and it's all about what they're selling at the moment, what is coming out of their stores at the moment. So, oftentimes the ad campaigns, the layouts reflect that. Therefore, we need to go out and shoot it and not use existing imagery. But occasionally, we do. I would save 5%, maybe 10% of our...

Does the agency influence the client about using stock or not using stock? Do they push for using original imagery?

Yeah, you bet. I mean we push for using whatever is going to satisfy the concept that we have, whether it happens to be stock, whether it happens to be a new shoot. But usually in the brief you can tell, “Okay, we need to shoot these shoes or an athlete wearing these shoes,” or whatever it is. Then you know you're going to go out and shoot it.

Does it affect you if the artist has worked for a competitor? Does that dissuade you from wanting to work with them, or do you feel like they understand that part of the industry?

It doesn't sway us so much. Sometimes it sways our clients... if they've worked with one of their strongest staunch competitors. If we really, really, really feel that photographer is key to what we're trying to achieve in our campaign, we can usually get them past that. It's usually a client issue more than ours.

And if you're looking for somebody and you need help, would you more likely call another buyer in another city or an artist agent? Who do you go to, to help?

Need help to find a photographer?

Talent, yeah. Something you're looking for.

I wouldn't think that we would be a strong department if we needed to rely on outside help, frankly. I'm extremely proud of our department. Everyone is so gifted in a variety of ways and are constant seekers whether they're doing a shoot in New York or off and checking out galleries and making sure that they're up to speed on fine art photographers. I often say if you come down in our department and you see everybody looking in a magazine, they're doing their job. Constantly seeking and looking for great talent is absolutely, it's a huge part of our job. It's essential.

That's really helpful. Do you see anything going forward that you think is going to be changing in the industry or is going to open up new opportunities for artists?

Yeah, we were talking about the Facebook thing. It's definitely a digital age and it's definitely a computer era that we live in. It seems like there are more and more people. And it's also cost saving, showing their work there in that capacity. I think that's only going to grow. I agree with this. I see more postcards, which I like. Save your money on the paper. Keep it simple. I'm seeing less and less big productions, thank God, that I usually threw away anyway. I pulled a couple pieces from some of my favorite agents. If it's a great agent and you know that they represent really good talent, I will save these little mini-booklets that they make and that sort of thing. And I love that they still do that because it's like your own little library of...

Talent.

Yeah, and books that you can keep on file. If anything, there's always trends. Like a couple of years ago, it was all the overly retouched photographers were kind of all the rage and it seems like it's going a little away from that just because it's time to do something different. So, there might be that as far as subject matter goes.

It sounds your agency uses both photography and illustration?

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Illustration, I would say, has gotten stronger and stronger every year. There's some really good, talented, you know, more old school illustrators out there, to collage artists, to digital, 3D artists, there's just such a variety of artists. We have flat files that we make, that our assistant makes and makes copies of, like five favorite images of each book whether it's a photography book or an illustrative book, and we have them all categorized. So, in the photography category, there's landscape, still life, product, portrait, celebrity portrait, environmental portrait. It's all categories that way. Same thing goes for illustrators. There's like 20 different categories.

You can quickly go to that, go pick up, take a look.

Yep. We try to have a pretty organized system and our assistant does a really good job of it.

And art galleries? Can some actually can have an effect on somebody being chosen also, you look for different artists...?

Totally, totally. I mean we're here in Portland. So, often we see the galleries here in town. If we were based out of New York, or London, or LA, we would probably go more often. But we try to, when we go on a shoot, we try to stop by just to see what's going on in the fine art world as well as follow publications that, you know, Artforum and things like that, that follow fine artists. I just love looking at good imagery or inspired by it. And to keep it going you've got to support those people that are spending their hard time and their hard-earned money to do it.

That's why Wieden+Kennedy has the accounts that it does.

I hope so.

Because it cares about the imagery.

Yeah, we care about, and it comes from the top. We care about the artists that are helping, that we're collaborating with. It's not just us. It's a collaboration of who we end up hiring and we're doing it together, and that in itself is going to make the best work at the end of the day.

Great. Well, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it.

Thank you.