Darren Cox, SpotCo

Hi, Darren.

Hello.

Can you tell me a little bit about your background as an art director?

Well, I work at SpotCo. I've worked here for eight years, almost nine, actually. And before that I worked at MTV. So, I've been an art director here for, I guess about two years. Before that, I was the senior designer and I was a senior designer at MTV.

I had known about Spot's work, obviously, by living in New York City and if you just walk around, you can see it out there on the street. I was always interested in entertainment, graphics and entertainment as an industry and that was something that I really wanted to do, getting into the design. So, after working at MTV for four years, I felt that it was time to grow and try something different and Spot, luckily enough, had an opportunity and I took advantage of it.

What is the difference in your role as an art director versus a designer?

Well, you know, hopefully if I'm doing my job well, it's important for me to find solutions to the problems that the clients and the creative directors have posed to the design department. And it's my job to hopefully figure out how to answer those questions eloquently through design and to hopefully inspire and encourage the younger designers to find solutions to those problems. And hopefully melding division of the client with the goals that are set by the creative director and sort of put that into something that can be visual.

And can you tell us what a typical project at Spot's would be?

Typically, we specialize in Broadway and about 90% of the work is Broadway work. We also do work for the entertainment industry at large – movies or the music industry, the occasional book cover, things of those nature. But for the most part, Spot is a Broadway advertising agency. So, the majority of the projects are that.

The company seems much bigger than I would have anticipated. How many people are actually here?

Oh, gosh. I'll say a number and then I'll be wrong. I think it's approximately 60 people. It's grown quite a bit since I started here. It was probably about half that when I came on board about eight years ago. Spot has grown considerably.

Is that because the theater industry is expanding, or the amount of promotion that a theater needs to do has expanded?

Theater in New York has expanded. But more importantly, theater throughout the world has actually expanded and a lot of the business that we do is in other markets. We also do market for Vegas. We do a lot of shows before they actually come to New York. A lot of times, they start in other markets whether it be Chicago, or on the west coast, or even Europe, or London. So, I think, theater…

And you're handling print and TV for them?

SpotCo is a full-service agency. So, we do everything from print. We do all the advertising. We do the front of house, which involves the front of the theaters themselves, TV commercials, radio commercials, online. So, it's really everything and hopefully everything.

And with the print part of it, is it mostly illustration that ends up getting used?

No, actually we've seen illustration kind of ebb and flow. Sometimes, it's used a lot. Right now, I would say it's probably not used as much.

Is there something that determines whether it would be photography or illustration?

Well, there's usually a myriad of issues that would make us end up at a certain solution. It's never really one thing, depending on what the show is, the size of it, the budget. There are usually a lot of factors that go into it. I couldn't really say that there's one specific thing.

Is there a typical type of artist that when you see their work, you think, “That is an artist that would work well in this medium?”

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the wonderful thing about a lot of the work that we do is that it really varies. You know, it can be something dark and moody it can be something bright and poppy, maybe something that's a little bit more thoughtful. Sometimes, it's just unabashed good time. So, you're always looking for different things that could be used for the future because there's so many different kinds of shows that are out there.

Each show is its own brand. So, it really needs to be done in it's own way each time. If we started repeating ourselves, it really wouldn't work. That's why we don't have a style. We don't really follow a style and we don't just employ a certain kind of artist.

And whose decision is it what type of artist or what artists you pick? Are you doing presentations to the client and the client decides? Are you deciding in-house who you want to use? How does that usually work?

Typically, it would start with us just kind of kicking around a few names who we think we would like to work with. A lot of times, we pursue working with people who we think might be the right feel for the show. And a lot of times, we'll begin working with them and creating sketches, and developing art and then pitch that art to the client. Sometimes it works other ways. But, generally, that would be the way that we approach it.

And with the artist, are you doing multiple bids, or are you choosing an artist and then working with them on the budget that you have?

It depends on what the show is. Typically, I would say that we would reach out to a couple of artists and we would develop sketches that then we would pitch to the client, and then hopefully the client would choose one of those directions and then we would complete the project with that particular person.

Do you usually start with a set amount that you're going to pay an artist and you tell them what it is? Or do you ask them how much they want for a project?

Typically, we like to pay as we go because anything can happen. Sometimes, we're starting on shows long before they've really been realized. A lot of times, we're starting on shows before the set's been designed or whatever the case may be. So, sometimes there's a shift in what people collectively think is the appropriate thing for the show.

Right. And it's usually a set, limited run of a show that the artwork is used for?

It can be. Although, a lot of times, the hope is that it will transfer, or that it will go on the road, or they'll establish a brand like Chicago or Rent that lasts forever. And I would say that generally that's the hope. And usually, going into it we don't always know that. So, what we try to do is establish some sort of payment structure based on the work that has been completed and then once we realize or once the client has sort of signed off on that's the direction they're going to go, then from there we would establish some sort of contract that would speak to how long this is going to run, whether it’s a limited engagement, whether it's a worldwide in perpetuity.

And shows that last for years at a time, do you find that the artwork, whatever you establish in the beginning, is what stays with the show, or have you found that you end up having to update the material?

It depends. I mean, sometimes, you have something that's such a strong, established brand like, say, Chicago or Rent where, no, it doesn't really change. And I think, generally, there's a hope that it will do that. But also, advertising and media in general is changing a lot, online being such an important component, television…

So, a lot of times the brand is developed as a look that can have different components. You know, maybe the poster is an illustration. But then when you go to make that into a television commercial, the illustration is not really going to work. Or, maybe it does. So, you have to be able to be flexible and figure out what's going to work best for each particular media and also how is it all going to fit together and make sense for that brand.

When you need a photographer or illustrator, what is the typical way you would go about finding talent?

Well, we actually have a large pool of people that we've worked with over the years. So, a lot of times there's sort of names that we've always kicked around of people that we've liked or we've worked with in the past. But we always have our eye out for new people, for young people, up and coming. We like to give opportunities to new artists depending on what the show might be. But then, we also have other shows that we really love to work with established people, people that have been in the industry a little bit longer. So, I can't say that there's one way that we go about it.

Do you find that the artists that your agency hires would be more from an advertising background or more from an editorial background?

I think one of the reasons why I really like SpotCo is that we've never really tried to set those borders up. I think we've really just tried to communicate as effectively and as clearly as possible. And I find that if you start to put those walls up, I don't think you're doing the best work.

And do you keep promo pieces that you receive?

If I did, I probably wouldn't have any room in my office. It's New York, after all, we don't have a lot of space.

It's huge!

No, I don't keep them. I might keep them for a month or two months. But eventually, I clear my wall off. I have big corkboard of things.

How do you file work of the people that you've seen that you like?

Usually, digital. I usually save an email that somebody sent me. We also like to keep a large catalog of illustrators’ websites, just cataloged because that's pretty much the way that most of the work gets shown.

Is there a library area or a shelf area…

Yes. The walls of the entire studio are a library.

There are resources available.

There's sort of books, literally, from the floor to the ceiling. So, yeah. I mean, we're huge fans of a lot of people's works, too.

And what about email? Do you open emails that you get where people want you to see their work?

I would say… ‘yes’ and ‘no’ is probably the answer. I would say, for the most part, anymore, ‘no,’ would be the answer. I just don't have the time. I mean, I would say I'm somewhere between 100 and 150 emails a day. If I looked and replied to all those, I just wouldn't get any work done.

Right. But even if you didn't reply, would you look quickly or would you delete them before you looked?

50/50 chance, probably.

Is there anything that would entice you to open it? Is there a subject line or the type of artist…

Anything that's less pushy would probably be…

You like less pushy?

Well, I mean, I think generally the rule is that if it's good work, it'll find its way out there, whether it be a postcard that I receive in the mail or an email. A lot of times, I will look even if it's just a split second. But I also feel like a lot of the work is really diluted because people are just sort of putting anything out there. I think the ones that tend to float to the top are either the ones that are just really, really good, or somehow that message has been specifically crafted for me, or they really understand my business, and really understand the kinds of things that I need to do and send me stuff that's really appropriate. I mean, lifestyle photography isn't something that we really need a lot of. So like, I don't need a million pictures of like weddings and gardens.

Right. What about when you receive a promo piece? Does it matter to you if it's a simple postcard or a fancy promotional piece? Does one affect your interest in the artist more than another?

No, I don't think so, actually. I would say that if it's good, whether it could be printed on toilet paper and I would probably still look at it.

And that's a good trick, to print on toilet paper.

That's something that's really changed for me coming from a real, strong print background and working at MTV and…

Where everything was about design.

Well, everything was about print. And, you know, obviously, working at MTV –that place has a strong on-air presence and then eventually online presence – my shift from print into that stuff also made me less interested in the mechanics of it and more interested in the communication of it. And that's even more true now that you have the Internet, which is like, you know, so ubiquitous and doesn't have anything to do with the tactile quality of it. You know, it's just about pure communication.

Do you ever pick people purely from looking at their website? Or do you need to call in their portfolios?

No. I can pick somebody purely from their website. I don't necessarily...

Do you call in portfolios still?

I do a lot because the strange thing about a lot of the work that we do is it's anything from one-inch square to the size of a building, literally. So, a lot of times, I'll call in work to really look at it under a fine-toothed comb to just see, you know, if it's a photographer. You know, are we talking about somebody who's shooting on 8x10 still and somebody who's going to get us something that's going to be able to blow up really, really big? So, that's an important aspect of our business because we're putting stuff on the fronts of buildings. It's important that things look good really, really big. Really big.

Right. And what about looking at websites of artists? Is there anything in particular that makes it easier for you to look through a website or that you appreciate seeing on a website in order to find talent?

Well, you mentioned the music thing.

When I called you, yes. And how do you feel about music on websites?

I think there's probably only a few websites that have music that I've been able to tolerate. But that would certainly be rare. For the most time, it's probably on mute. If it's irritating in any way, and it sounds strange that that's my deciding factor, but I just don't have the time and if it's something I've got to weed through to get to the work, then I just don't have that kind of time. I'm just going to move on to the next thing.

Now that you've been working so much on the theater industry, is there anything about the industry that you've noticed that you were surprised about or how decisions are made? Is it any different than other types of industries?

Well, coming from MTV, it was interesting to see how the business went about choosing and promoting the work that they're doing. So, that was interesting to me. Coming from MTV where designers were really respected and your decisions were something to be listened to, whereas in theater, there's a little bit more of a push back there.

Who's making the decision about the...?

The producers of the shows are typically the ones making the decisions. However, that depends. It could be a non-profit theater and then it would be the marketing people probably making the decisions, or maybe the artistic director, or some combination of those people. Those are typically the ones making the decisions and that's Drew and Gail typically handle those relationships. They're the ones really on the front lines there, managing those meetings and putting forward the ideas to the clients. It's my job to sort of figure all that out and then how to make it visual. So, that's typically the way it goes.

Do you find that you're using more or less artists this year than in years past?

I'd say about the same. I mean, the only drop off that there might be might be because of the economy, and that's just because there's less shows.

Or maybe that makes new shows or new shows come up more often because shows drop. So, new shows come.

That can be true. Yeah, that can be true.

So, that can work to your advantage.

It could work to your advantage. And also, it could work to the artist's advantage in the sense that, typically, photography is expensive just by the mechanics of it: studios, and actors, and wardrobe, and just the apparatus of photography is just an expensive endeavor. So, in this more money-conscious time, it makes illustrations seem like a little bit more of a viable option because, typically, it's only one person actually crafting the image. So, from that standpoint, it gives a little bit more opportunity to the illustrators probably.

Do you think the agency is going to go after other types of businesses down the line or is this the world that...?

Well, as I said, Broadway is the large majority of the work that we do. We do work on other cultural institutions in New York. Botanical Gardens is a client of ours. We also work with regional theaters. So, we would like to work with more.

And what are some of the other ways that you enjoy finding new talent, new photographers or illustrators? Is there anything, award shows, events, portfolio reviews, galleries, magazines? What are some of the ways that you like?

I mean, I would say that all of those are... actually, a good trip to the bookstore can do a lot for you. Also, I teach at the School of Visual Arts. So, just seeing graduating students from either the illustration programs or the photography programs, or looking at other schools and seeing their graduating classes is an interesting way to see and look for new talent. So, that's a really, really great way. There’s lots of websites out there and, you know, I get tons and tons of emails. So, there's always something.

And what about social media? Do you look at people on Facebook? Do you look at people on Twitter? Do you follow any of that?

I'm sort of a loser when it comes to that stuff. I'm not on any of that stuff.

So, that wouldn't be an effective way to reach you?

Me personally, no. But from my understanding of it, it's a very effective way to reach people. I think that that's a way that a lot of people are communicating and I think it's great. It's just not for me.

I teach portfolio class. So, they're in the same situation that illustrators and photographers are in and for me, personally, I really try to encourage them to go down the road of worrying about the communication, worrying about the actual piece itself. And the vehicle by which it's being conveyed in, I'm not so interested, which is crazy to me because that's not the way I came up and that's not the sort of way that I worked when I first came out.

But now, there's such an onslaught from every direction all the time that the fancy portfolio that's made out of some crazy wood, and it's got vinyl on the outside and made with shiny metal… I don't care. You know, I just don't have the time anymore. What's going to make me stop is seeing something amazing. That's going to stop me right in my tracks. And it could be on any website. It could be mailed to me in a postcard. It could be literally printed on toilet paper. I don't care [as long as] it's a good idea.

Is there certain work that you've seen that you really like that you're like, “Oh, we have no use for this. But this is great imagery, style…?”

Yeah, absolutely. I know, I remember a few years ago, and he's sort of all the rage now, but I remember seeing Nadav Kander's work in some weird fashiony Japanese magazine. And I remember it was like transvestites or something. I remember just ripping out on the page and I was like, “These, to me, are just really arresting images.” And of course, now, he's this really big photographer and everyone loves his work. So, yeah, I mean, there's been instances like that.

The time you were looking at a guy and going, “Okay, I'm not going to be able to sell this to my client.”

Yeah, pretty much. But, actually, now I'm going to actually get a chance to work with him. So hopefully, that's going to be really great.

It all comes around, see?

Yeah. Somebody like Frank Ockenfels is really amazing because I don't think he's ever had a… I mean, he has a portfolio now, but he's always just had those damned junky books that he lugs around that are, literally, ripped, torn pieces of everything he's done and that was his portfolio for years. And I mean he's a really great example. Now, he's got this website that's all fancy and stuff. But, for years and years and years, he just had that darn piece of junk, rubber band together, sketchbook thing. It's amazing work. That's what was the thing that you were like, “Okay, it's the work. It's not the thing, not the vehicle by which it's being shown to me in. It's the actual work that's great.”

Well, great. Well, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it.

Yeah, absolutely.